Agenda item - Public Involvement

To consider the following matters raised by members of the public:

(a)       Petitions: to receive any petitions presented to the full council or at the meeting itself;

(1)  Ahmed Abuorof – Penalty Points System

(b)       Written Questions: to receive any questions submitted by the due date of 12 noon on the 7 February;

(c)       Deputations: to receive any deputations submitted by the due date of 12 noon on the 7 February.

22.1 The Chair invited Ahmed Abuorof to present the petition found on page 7 of the Agenda.

22.2 The Chair gave the following response:

Thank you Ahmed for bringing this petition to committee, I note the number of people who responded to the petition triggers a debate. Therefore I propose that we bring item 25 forward and debate this petition alongside that report.

The engagement and feelings of the local taxi trade to the issue of the penalty points proposal has been extremely high and therefore I, along with the deputy Chair Cllr Sheard met with every rep who requested a meeting last summer.

As a result of those meetings we agreed that the trade needed more time to consider the proposals and we moved the item to this February meeting rather than the October meeting to give full consultation time in order that committee members could receive the detailed feedback and representations that trade groups in the city wanted to provide to us to support that decision making process.

Ahmed, to respond to the points you raise in your petition I wanted to address specifics, not withstanding, the decision that rests with full committee and they may or may not support the proposal.

You raised 9 points within the petition which I will respond to now for the benefit of those that signed the petition and for fellow committee members.

Our concerns and those of many others in our community are as follows:

 1. Driver Shortage

The number of first applications have increased since pre covid years which is a positive although I accept that driver shortages across UK and sectors is a reality. There are a number of reasons why drivers may decide to be licensed elsewhere and its open to debate that a PPS would be a reason, as many other authorities, including neighbouring authorities like Lewes, already have a PPS.

 2. Complex Violations: Some violations by taxi drivers may involve complex circumstances or disputes that are better addressed through arbitration or mediation rather than a straightforward penalty points system.

I would assure members and the trade that this proposal does not change the part of process relating to the  investigation of complaints and we will still, that process remains the unchanged by this proposal. This proposal relates to the next steps where the investigation concludes.
 

3. Economic Impact: Considering current economic impact on taxi drivers and council itself, this will cost money to implement, plus the excessive use of penalty points could lead to financial hardship for drivers.

Members will see in the report that no new rules are being implemented by this process, and therefore I do not accept that this proposal would add any cost pressure to drivers or companies. Officers do not believe there will be a cost to implementing the scheme for the council side of the scheme.  There are no “new rules” but they believe it will provide a clear, structured framework to enforcement, reducing officer time in chasing persistent low level offenders.

 4. Focus on Core Issues: Councils may prioritise addressing more significant issues in the taxi industry, such as safety concerns, vehicle standards, or customer service, and may choose to allocate resources accordingly.

The PPS addresses the issues of safety concerns, vehicle standards and customer service. It does not add new rules but is intended to be a consistent approach to dealing with the very issues raised by the petitioner. Again, councillors will need to consider the report alongside this petition and make that choice.

 5. Enhancing vehicle standards: By applying Vehicle suitability test every 6 months, rather than waiting for the driver to commit an offence and issue him a penalty point.

This proposal would be an increased cost for drivers whereas the penalty points scheme does not add any cost pressures to drivers. We welcome the idea and will consider it in due course again, if we felt appropriate as a proposal we would consult the whole trade on this idea. 

 6. It is already implemented in the British Law: If a driver commits a driving offence, he will be issued with penalty points and if it is serious, driver will lose his driving licence and taxi licence at the same time.

The scheme before committee today should not be confused with driver licensing. The points scheme before committee only relates to adding points to the taxi license. Whilst, the wider point that there are other ways of dealing with vehicle issues or driving safety enforced by the police is accepted, this penalty points scheme only applies to taxi license enforcement and those points do not apply to the driver’s driving license. It is important that both the trade and councillors are clear on this point. 

 7. Monitoring and Improvement: Councils may opt for continuous monitoring and improvement programs for taxi services, where they work closely with drivers to identify and rectify issues without resorting to penalty points. 
 

8. Educate and do not prosecute: Educating taxi drivers effectively by training courses, communication, online seminars and support do not wait till the driver makes a mistake to be prosecuted.

To take points 7 & 8 together as they are related: members will see in the papers  it is proposed that the investigation process would remain the same as it is now and each case would be judged on its own merits. As is the case now, where appropriate additional training may be required and this point is made in the papers and members may wish to ask follow up questions about the use of training rather than other sanctions.

 9. Inconsistent Enforcement: The application of penalty points appears to be inconsistent and sometimes arbitrary. Drivers often receive points for minor infractions that do not necessarily pose a threat to passenger safety.

This point gets the heart of today’s debate and decision making. Councillors will indeed need to satisfy themselves as to whether this proposal makes the system more consistent or not.

Once again, I would like to thank you and the many trade reps who have worked so hard to provide feedback to ensure that councillors can make a decision today with the benefit of all the views on this proposal.